@pounderstibbons (73461):
"Irvinggel a "történészségén" túl más probléma is van, amin régi jó szokásod szerint túlléptél, annak ellenére, hogy magad hoztál rá bizonyítékot. Irving ugyanis nem tagadja a Holokausztot, legalábbis már nem."
Irving holokausztcáfoló, holokauszttagadó nem is lehet. Egyébként elmondanád, mit kell tenni vagy mondani ahhoz, hogy valaki holokauszttagadó legyen?
Azt se feledd, hogy Irving azóta börtönben is volt. Azt pedig, hogy mit gondol most, a műveiből és a honlapjáról megtudhatod. Vagy válthatsz vele levelet is.
"Hasonló a helyzet David Cole esetében, aki a témában tett legutóbbi megnyilvánulásaiban töredelmesen bevallotta, hogy mélyen megbánta és nem tartja fenn Holokauszt-tagadó állításait."
Fiatalon nem szerette volna az egész életét tönkre tenni. Mindennel együtt maximális tisztelet jár ki neki azért a filmért, amiért a holoiparosok meggyűlölték.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jx9G4zmpKv0
A JDL-ben így vélekedtek róla:
"Don't you think it's time that we flush this rotten, sick individual down the toilet, where the rest of the waste lies? One less David Cole in the world will certainly not end Jew-hatred, but it will have removed a dangerous parasitic, disease-ridden bacteria from infesting society...An evil monster like this does not deserve to live on this earth."
Sem a maga, sem a családja biztonságát, életét nem kívánta kockáztatni, amikor egy terrorszervezet veszélyeztette, fenyegette.
"Szóval közölnél egy immáron korrigált listát, amin a tényleg történész, tényleg élő, és tényleg aktuálisan is holokauszttagadó személyek sorakoznak?"
Mit jelent a holokauszttagadás? A holokausztozósok jó része is meghalt már, nemrég éppen Israel Gutman. Akkor ő rontja a statisztikájukat? És neked milyen statisztikák állnak rendelkezésedre az élő történészek köréből? Akiket írtam, azok történészek és egy részük élő.
Egyébként az általad elismert holokausztos történészek munkájából, életművéből tudnál csak egyetlen egy elemet kiemelni, amivel hozzájárultak a zsidó holokauszt bizonyításához? Nehéz kérdés, főleg, ha megnézzük pl. Deborah Lipstadtnak a tudományhoz való hozzáállását. És ő egy professzor.
"We proceeded from the death barracks to the delousing buildings where clothing was disinfected with Zyklon B, the same gas used to kill people. This was the facility where Leuchter had found a concentration of gas residue higher than in the gas chambers. Rampton closely questioned Robert Jan about Leuchter's findings. As Rampton's questions grew more aggressive, I became decidedly uncomfortable. He seemed to be demanding that Robert Jan prove that people were murdered in the gas chambers. Finally, Rampton asked impatiently, "
Isn't it time trustworthy experts did an extensive scientific study of this place?"
I was stunned by Rampton's apparent conviction that we needed a scientific study to "prove" the gas chambers were killing factories. Unable to contain myself, I burst out, "
Why do we need scientific studies? We have the evidence." Rampton glared at me and in, a tone that conveyed his annoyance, said, "Pardon me, but I need to know." I said nothing, but inside I was shaking. Unable to fathom why Rampton was shooting these questions at Robert Jan, I slipped to the back of the group."
Lipstadt, Deborah E. History on Trial: My Day in Court with a Holocaust Denier. New York: Harper Perennial. pp.62-63.
De a többiek is mondtak érdekekseket. Néhány példa.
Professor Arno J. Mayer, whose Jewish family fled Luxembourg
in 1940, wrote in his 1988 book Why Did the Heavens Not Darken:
"Sources for the study of the gas chambers are at once rare and unreliable."
"Most of what is known is based on the depositions of Nazi officials and executioners at postwar trials and on the memory of survivors and bystanders. This testimony must be screened carefully, since it can be influenced by subjective factors of great complexity." (B)
"In the meantime, there is no denying the many contradictions, ambiguities, and errors in the existing sources."
Why Did the Heavens Not Darken?: The "Final Solution" in History
By Arno J. Mayer. Pantheon Books (1990 edition) A. p.362, B. p.362/3, C. p.363
"there was a Holocaust, which is, by the way,
more easily said than demonstrated."
Is There a New Anti-Semitism? A Conversation with Raul Hilberg
Logos Journal. Volume 6 - Issue one-two
"By allowing nature to take over the site (Auschwitz-Birkenau), do we run the risk of allowing humanity to forget what happened and set the stage for future questioning of the Holocaust?
(van Pelt:) Ninety-nine per cent of what we know we do not actually have the physical evidence to prove . . . it has become part of our inherited knowledge."
A Case for Letting Nature Take Back Auschwitz
The Toronto Star - December 27, 2009
The French historian Jacques Baynac, who stated:
"For the scientific historian a witness statement does not represent real history"
But nevertheless still believes the Nazis gassed Jews, wrote:
“it is necessary to recognize that the lack of traces involves the inability to
directly establish the reality of the existence of homicidal gas chambers.”
Gerald Reitlinger, the British Jew who in 1953 published the first in-depth study of the Holocaust, wrote:
"A certain degree of reserve is necessary in handling all this material, and particularly this applies to the last section ("survivor narratives"). For instance, the evidence concerning the Polish death camps was mainly taken after the war by Polish State Commissions or by the Central Jewish Historical Commission of Poland. The hardy survivors who were examined were seldom educated men. Moreover, the Eastern European Jew is a natural rhetorician, speaking in flowery similes."
Gerald Reitlinger, The Final Solution (London: Sphere books, 1971 edition) p. 581
"Survivor accounts of critical events are typical of all testimony, that is, they are full of discrepancies. About all matters both trivial and significant, the evidence is nearly always in dispute. In part the unreliability of these accounts derives from imperfect observation and flawed memory, but in larger part from the circumstance that they are not constructed exclusively on the basis of firsthand experience. In order to present a coherent narrative, the author has likely included a large measure of hearsay, gossip, rumor, assumption, speculation, and hypothesis."
Lucy Dawidowicz, A Holocaust Reader. New Jersey: Behrman House. 1976. pp.